Notes From Underground: My Fantasy News, “China Swaps U.S. Treasuries For Fort Knox”

This headline would have seemed ridiculous eight weeks ago but today it has great relevance. If I ran the PBOC (or rather had the totalitarian impulses of President Xi), the command from above would be trade in the overvalued U.S. debt instruments for a 3,000-year vehicle that’s a reliable store of VALUE. The world’s central banks have confirmed a central theme of NOTES FROM UNDERGROUND: It is not inflation they fear but the onset of a DEFLATIONARY SPIRAL.

The guardians of value will render savers worthless in an effort to bail out debtors. Yes, if the global financial system collapses into a horrid feedback loop of liquidation the results will be calamitous. Therefore, those who have HOARDED fiat currencies are deemed to be expendable,t he ultimate and financial act of FINANCIAL REPRESSION. The issue for global finance has been and will be DEBT, DEBT, DEBT, aided by the policies of lower for longer interest rates by the Bernanke, Yellen, Kuroda, and for eight horrendous years, Mario Draghi. The tide is going out and it seems that everyone has been floating naked on a tsunami of cheap funds.

Think back to January 2015 when the Swiss National Bank was forced to remove its peg of the Swiss franc to the EURO of 1.20. As a result, the Swiss franc soared as those who borrowed massive amounts of currency at CHEAP INTEREST RATES had to repay those loans with a much higher Swiss currency, turning cheap loans into a major financial debacle. Many Eastern European mortgage holders were forced into foreclosure. Lawsuits are still being settled against the banks that underwrote so many of those loans. This is a major issue today as the FED flooded the world with cheap money, creating a global system balancing on a stable dollar with very low interest rates.

As the fear of a global downturn increases there is a RUSH to secure dollars in an effort to be able to continue the finance of the DOLLAR-DENOMINATED DEBT. Even as the FED has opened the spigots to foreign central banks the effect has not yet resulted in a weakening of the DOLLAR, which is a necessity for foreign borrowers, especially in the emerging market economies.

The DOLLAR has soared  versus the Mexican peso, Turkish lira, Russian rouble and South African rand. The Dollar Index against many of the major currencies has gained 8% even as the FED has been more aggressive in pumping liquidity into the U.S. financial system and offered increased SWAP LINES to some of the world’s central banks. The FED has FAILED because it continues to underestimate the need for DOLLARS as Zoltan Poszar has so astutely warned.

While Wall Street applauded every FED pivot to lower for longer the global system was made ever more fragile. MAKE NO MISTAKE: THE U.S. TREASURY, IN COOPERATION WITH THE CENTRAL BANK, MUST AGGRESSIVELY INTERVENE IN THE FOREIGN EXCHANGE MARKETS TO EASE THE DEMAND FOR DOLLARS. THE PUNDITS ON CNBC WILL PROCLAIM THE UNITED STATES CANNOT UNILATERALLY ACT TO DEPRECIATE THE DOLLAR, that they need G-7 approval and coordination.

Two weeks ago the US acted alone in cutting the FED FUNDS rate 50 basis points immediately following the G-7 meeting. Media outlets said it was acting without consent. To all the PUNDITS: This is a funding issue and not a trade issue. If the U.S. DOESN’T GET THE NECESSARY FUNDING INTO THE SYSTEM TRADE WILL BECOME A SIDE SHOW. The U.S. MUST ACT TO BREAK THE BACK OF A STRONG DOLLAR (do I DARE SAY, WHATEVER IT TAKES).

***Be on the lookout for pronouncements for the Bank for International Settlements as they have warned about the huge growth in DOLLAR-DENOMINATED DEBT. Agustin Carstens is the General Director of the BIS and as a Mexican banker and IMF economist is very aware of the issue of the exorbitant build-up of DOLLAR debt in the emerging market sphere. Watch for any news of BIS recommendations for reserving the potential crisis of DOLLAR STRENGTH. Again, the issue of the DOLLAR is not ONE OF TRADE BUT ONE OF FUNDING THE GLOBAL FINANCIAL SYSTEM.

The bottom line is that the exorbitant privilege of being the world’s reserve currency has now become what Michael Pettis has warned about, AN EXORBITANT BURDEN. It is time for Treasury Secretary Mnuchin and Chairman Powell to think internationally and rise above the domestic concerns. THEY SHOULD SELL DOLLARS WITHOUT A MONETARY NUMBER IN AN EFFORT TO BREAK THE DOLLAR. How it will affect various asset classes is secondary at this point. But if I owned a huge pool of U.S. sovereign debt, well, I might want to rebalance the portfolio.

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53 Responses to “Notes From Underground: My Fantasy News, “China Swaps U.S. Treasuries For Fort Knox””

  1. frank Says:

    Won’t “breaking the dollar by issuing w/o a monetary number” ultimately result in massive inflation?

    • yraharris Says:

      Frank–how many times have the central proclaimed their goal is to achieve 2% inflation—-how high inflation goes is not a concern as all of last week’s action reflects—-enough inflation will go along way towards minimizing the impact of too much debt—-they will financially repress all with assets of paper backing—they believe that they wil be able to crush inflation when they will need to—

  2. Ray McKenzie Says:

    thank you for the early post today Yra. Indeed the dollar surge is troubling along with debt, the virus, economy grinding to a halt. I never thought I would see anything like this. Praying we come out of the darkness with the world in a better place for the future.

  3. Gold vs. “The Onset of a Deflationary Spiral” – Yra Harris – Precious Hour with TraderStef™ – Author Investor Trader Says:

    […] Notes From Underground Mar. 22, 2020: […]

  4. The Bigman Says:

    Hi Hope all are well Again as an amateur it is my impression that all attempts at monetary intervention fail. why will this attempt to break the dollar suceed? There have been many comparisons of thie crisis to WWII. Just as Bretton Woods1.0 followed WWII Bretton Woods2.0 will follow this conflagartion and gold will play a roll in the new world reserve currency One thing that would save us is if after Trump’s 15 days of shutdown we begin to return to normalcy- the well go back to work, the kids go back to school, everyone washes their hands and the at risk folks continue to shelter. Point of service, or home based testing will be available soon(I have a reliable source) which will facilitate the return to normalcy. all I hope have read the WSJ Friday editorial: Rethinking the coronavirus shutdown. It is spot on IMHO. Stay safe. TBM

    • yraharris Says:

      Bigman—Plaza accord was not a failure in fact so successful that they needed the Louvre Accord in 1987 to undo some of its negative effects.Bob Lighthizer was part of the James Baker team of those days—so I challenge youe assertion about intervention failing

      • The Bigman Says:

        Mea culpa As I prefaced I am an amateur. I was thinking of countries like Argentina and Mexico who intervened unsuccessfully. Of note in 1985 when the Plaza Accord occurred UST debt was 1.8T and 40% of GDP Now it is 23T going on 26T or more and greater than 100% GDP Back then according to wikipedia it took 10 billion to effect the devaluation How many trillions this time and once it starts can we stop it given the our debt load. To paraphrase the late Sen Dirksen A trillion here a trillion there pretty soon you are talking real money.

  5. Trader 1 Says:

    Yra,

    How will the Treasury pull off issuing all this debt that’s coming? During this crisis what country has the funds to place a bid the Treasury can hit??

    • David Richards Says:

      Good question. None will. So the Fed will monetize the Treasury debt, right? It’s already been monetizing since last year, albeit with a very quick detour thru the banks (who profit!) to keep it technically legal. As US private savings can’t possibly finance it, without much higher rates, and the foreign official sector has been a net seller of Treasuries for many months already, even at record drawdown rates this winter. Other countries won’t buy Treasuries until interest rates are much higher.

      Fundamentally, that would have been negative for the buck, and indeed DXY initially fell from just under 100 to 94. But capital flows back into US overwhelmed that fundamental during the current crisis, like Jimmy Rogers and Brent Johnson and Martin Armstrong had said would happen, quickly pushing DXY back up again, thru the key 100 level to nearly 104. As the key level of 100 on DXY was taken out, I flipped bullish dollar and remain so with the exception of an expected correction that retraces part of the gain from approx 94-104.

      • David Richards Says:

        Well, that expected correction to retrace part of the recent DXYgain from approx 94-104 in this crisis appears to be underway. As the Fed’s unprecedented buying of UST, MBS, corp bonds, some ETF’s, in open-ended fashion triggers the DXY reaction from its 3-year top just shy of 104. So the big-picture, key DXY levels are 104+ and 94-.

  6. Bosko Says:

    Yra,
    I must express my deep appreciation for NOTES FROM UNDERGROUND and its contributors over the many years I have been reading. Your teachings have allowed me to connect the dots of the financial system in a way I never thought possible and it has allowed me to develop the gold bonds we have discussed many times. Gold functions as a store of value, which I agree with completely, however let’s not forget what the wise old JP Morgan said DURING the gold standard days, “Gold is money, everything else is credit.” The feed back loop might result in a gold-backed system of some kind, in other words “Gold in Motion.” Also the gold community suggests people should become their own “central bank” by keeping gold in storage, but let’s not forget, central banks are there to be the “lenders of last resort,” so their job is to finance trade and economic development NOT hoard gold. Aside from our Ledgermatix platform, the problem is very few private finance platforms exist that allow for gold financing, where individuals can actually become the lenders of last resort, instead of financial institutions and central banks. Gold hoarders out there should learn to think like a banker and help the system turn around. I believe with the advances in digital ledger technology and the fintech movement, private gold financing will become a bigger trend in the future and the “gold clause” might return to trade finance contracts. Hope you don’t mind the disclosure below, thought if anyone was interested in learning more, I’d be happy to help.

    Sincerely,
    Bosko Kacarevic

    “Gold, like a key, is a phenomenal instrument that can unlock vast riches for those who know how to use it, otherwise it’s just a piece of metal.”
    http://www.centralmcx.com

  7. Aubrey Hayes Says:

    Hi Dave,

    Strongly recommend reading and following this blog. When you have time, you might want to go back and catch up on the 3 or 4 blogs that preceded this one.They are listed at the bottom of each article.

    I have followed Yra for a number of years. He is a legend on the Chicago Board of Trade, trading interest rate futures and currencies. He is a close friend of Rick Santelli and Rick used to interview him regularly on his morning slots, but now that Yra has semi – retired and moved to Scottsdale, he is not on as often.

    One thing I have done right this year is to be long the $ (UUP) The worldwide $ shortage is behind the repo crisis.

    On Sun, Mar 22, 2020 at 12:16 PM Notes From Underground wrote:

    > Yra posted: “This headline would have seemed ridiculous eight weeks ago > but today it has great relevance. If I ran the PBOC (or rather had the > totalitarian impulses of President Xi), the command from above would be > trade in the overvalued U.S. debt instruments for a 3” >

  8. dsiderijr Says:

    I’d let everything that fails without a bailout fail and let the fallout unleash itself. In the end, those with the money will rein supreme. Let the AAPL, AMZN, MSFT’s take over the country. All this stimulus and packages etc is just like using monopoly money. Doesn’t even mean anything anymore

    • yraharris Says:

      My response is the same as 12 years ago—a liquidation of assets will cause unemployment to soar to levels that the country could not possibly exist with

      • Bobby Hazan Says:

        Here is an idea:
        Warren Buffett, Jeff Bezos, the Koch Brothers, Mark Zuckerberg, Bill Gates, Elon Musk, Ray Dalio, Ken Griffin, and more have all graciously agreed to donate all of their wealth when they die to save the environment, the turtles, the dolphins, and the whales.

        Maybe instead they can share some of their money with all of the $12 per hour slaves that make this country run everyday.

        This is a pivotal moment in our history. Are the rich trolls that run our country going to force “Congress” to support all of these Americans. Or is Congress going to push back and tell these rich guys to step up and do it themselves.

        I don’t think our Congress has the brains or the guts to do that. And I think that all of those men above need to stare at all of those 000’s until the day they die.

        Let’s get them all a Penis Enlargement, and hope they donate their wealth to save the country.

        I know there are some very smart and connected people on this blog. Hopefully someone sees this and spreads it. Let’s Do It right now and save our country.

      • TraderB Says:

        Yra- I apologize for the crude language and my comment is not meant to have any political bias. As both Warren Buffett, the Koch Brothers, and the other owners of all this worthless paper are all affiliated with BOTH the Republican and Democratic parties. I am simply asking that rather that they lobby Congress for a bailout, it be the other way around.

      • yraharris Says:

        Bobby Hazan—great points.For those who are looking to do something to aid and abet those struggling,my dear friend Mike Sturch does phenomenal work with St Vincent De Paul in Chicago as the money goes to directly food and clothe the hungry and the naked.He has been doing this for 50 years as he is known as Santa Mike—-I told Mike I Friday that if the needs become great to let me know and my wfe and I would send a meaningful check—these are truly the times that test our souls—if anybody wishes I will post if St.Vincent De Paul has pressing needs to feed not just the homeless as so many people are under great stress.This is a worthy cause among so many but as a past people of the year –1994 I believe my wife and I deem this a very worthy cause and this coming from a Jewish couple that takes the lessons seriously—let me know for those who are interested after I hear from Mike

      • david Says:

        I know it’s far-fetched and probably would never happen. Wouldn’t like to see unemployment increase to astronomical levels. I’m just imagining a World where rather than the govn. bailing out failed companies with money they don’t have, let the entities that have money do it. Failing cruise lines? Facebook can own them, hell that might be one popular cruise. Boeing failing? Maybe Microsoft can be the suiter. Heck, isn’t a plane a piece of metal wrapped around a PC anyway? Maybe Amazon can back failing restaurants and food industry; they’ve done great with WHole Foods. Just seems one bailout leads to the next bubble and then that bubble needs a bailout so on and so fourth. *shrug*

  9. Pierre Chapuis Says:

    Two questions
    If they SELL dollars, what are they buying?
    The yen, yuan, peso, how is this decided?

    Ok three questions, I know I’m pushing it with this.

    So let’s see if I’m getting this right.
    We create swap lines with all countries who have debt denominated in US dollars. We buy their currency at ANY price and send them dollars to repay their debt.
    We now hold foreign currencies from all over the world. The foreign countries breathe a sigh of relief. They don’t crash and burn. Their governments remain stable for now.
    We now have a dollar that has been devalued, we hold monies from all over the world.

    What do we do with all this foreign currency at that point?
    Didn’t we just trade their inflation problem for our deflation problem at this point.?

    • yraharris Says:

      Pierre—have yo seen the Swiss balance sheet.The greatest alchemists in the world have been in pig heaven for the last five years as they have printed their way to prosperity.

      • The Bigman Says:

        Are you suggesting the Fed buy foreign stocks with the currencies that it recieves through swaps just as the SNB does?

      • yraharris Says:

        Bigman–you have seen that there are no rules as of this morning –none.This is TEGWAR as played in Bang the Drum Slowly—the exciting game without any rules–do as you wish as the SNB made 54 billion last year which has evaporated with the huge drop in equities but the Swiss printed six billion more lst week to intervene to keep the value of the Franc down—TEGWAR indeed Bigman

      • TraderB Says:

        My dealer for physical gold is completely out. Who do you guys use?

      • David Richards Says:

        TraderB, AFAIK there’s no physical gold or silver available for retail sale anywhere in the world. ZH had an article yesterday about that, following up on one a week earlier.

        https://www.zerohedge.com/commodities/its-selling-toilet-paper-if-you-havent-bought-physical-gold-yet-its-probably-too-late

        I warned here on Feb 10 when banks in Singapore ran out of physical metal for retail sale and only some higher-priced dealers remained. For example, it’s $48 per silver coin at bullionstar (sourced from private sellers on limited basis) and gold is over $2000/oz. When the wholesale bid price for metal exceeds the paper ask price, it’s all over. And remember those paper purchase contracts typically have force majeure and dollar payout clauses so there’s no metal that route. Similar for GLD, stay away from that one. But the Sprott physical ETF’s (phys and pslv) are 100% metal and will exchange your shares for metal, but only for a large and round quantity. Just beware the NAV premium and read the prospectus.

        As a trader, you know that this mania will pass. Unless we’re in the end game. Otherwise, I remember the same thing last happened in 2013.

      • David Richards Says:

        Trader, bullionstar (singapore) now has 1-oz CAD Gold Maples and and 1-oz AUD Gold Mouse coins in-stock for US$1966 each:
        https://www.bullionstar.com/buy/product/gold-coin-lunar-mouse-2020-1-oz

    • David Richards Says:

      Serious question about those new Fed swap lines… By what rationale were they selected? Certainly NOT to boost global dollar liquidity. Because that fails given the choice of swap lines. All tiny countries with relatively insignificant dollar debts. Except for Brazil and Mexico, and maybe Korea (which is in surplus anyhow).

      Why none of India, China, Indonesia, Saudi, Russia, Turkey, etc? They’re big G20 countries, large dollar users and systemic. Instead of Denmark, Singapore, Norway and most laughably, New Zealand?

      NZ has only 4M people and the banks operate in both NZ and AUS, which has a Fed swap line too. So NZ is a redundant choice. Singapore and Norway enjoy large accumulated net surpluses and sovereign wealth funds that already have dollar assets which can be sold or collateralized. Not that they need to anyhow.

      Fail.

  10. Adam Says:

    Yra…a quick check on my understanding kind of similar to Pierre’s.

    In terms of a weak dollar, it’s not necessarily a good thing. However, since we are the world’s currency a “weak” dollar is necessary in these times to finance the global financial markets and trade. Otherwise a country having a strong currency is a good thing, no?

    • yraharris Says:

      Adam–yes when it is strong for the most important reason—quality monetary and fiscal policies not as a haven in a world laden with debt correlated with its reserve currency status which is presently backed the credibility and fiduciary responsibility of its central bank—tell me why the dollar is strong again—it is backed by nothing but the full faith of the US Government

      • Adam Says:

        Gotcha. So basically it is “strong” however there is no economic or financial reason for it to be strong except the backing of Uncle Sam.

  11. David Richards Says:

    Anybody who’d swap UST for real physical gold right now certainly qualifies as a contrarian trader, hah.

    Now I won’t go down the rabbit hole of whether Fort Knox, unaudited for decades, actually still has much gold. But does China still really own many treasuries, at least any that are free and clear of encumbrances not already pledged for other real assets? Not many, I suspect. Not likely with certain lawmakers talking aloud about cancelling Chinese-held UST’s. Politicians need to watch their mouth, as they exacerbate the poor appetite in the foreign official sector for treasuries. Such a policy could also contribute to the demise of the reserve currency.

  12. David Richards Says:

    Is it becoming clear yet that gold will re-emerge as the de facto reserve currency of choice?

    Is anyone else monitoring the availability of gold & silver coins? THAT’s the real shortage, not dollars. I can get as many dollars as I want instantly, by selling physical, but I cannot buy physical with dollars now.

    Golden rule: He who has the gold will make the rules.

    “Gold is the money of kings
    Silver is the money of gentlemen
    Barter is the money of peasants
    Debt [dollars] is the money of slaves.”

    ― Norm Franz,
    Money & Wealth in the New Millennium: A Prophetic Guide to the New World Economic Order

    • The Bigman Says:

      Dave In answer to your question Kitco has sold out of their silver mini-monster boxes for which it was asking 12.50 over the spot silver price!!

  13. Michael Temple Says:

    David
    I, too, am bullish on gold

    But, it won’t become a de facto reserve currency for many years to come when the world does not want USDs and USTs.

    My bet is 2023, not 2020 or even 2021.

    • David Richards Says:

      Yes Michael, I didn’t mean to imply it’d happen this year or next. I can’t handicap the timing at all. If it’s 2023, time flies so that’ll be here soon. It’s beyond my pay grade to say when or how we get there from here, but the leading bet of those more qualified seems to be a digital currency audited & backed by physical metal. IDK.

      • TraderB Says:

        This blog is the best place on the Internet there is, and is a terrific place to share great ideas and information.

        I am excited to help out small businesses and hourly workers in my own community. Hopefully everyone can pitch in and help the people around them.

        I hope Congress tells CEOs today to reach into their own pockets instead of asking the taxpayer. But I think we all know it doesn’t really work that way.

        While GDX looks attractive here, I don’t like the idea of owning shares. I prefer the actual metal.

        Hope you are all staying healthy. Thank you Yra (and everyone else too) for sharing your ongoing wisdom.

      • David Richards Says:

        Yeah bailing out corps that borrowed excessively to buy back shares and give millions to their senior execs isn’t very palatable.

        And owning GDX or other etf/shares doesn’t enable you to get money to pay your bills or live on if policymakers shut share markets. Lots of rumors about what might happen. Especially in europe.

        It’s all just speculation but every few days the Fed comes out with some new krazy thing so who knows what’s next.

  14. David Richards Says:

    Serious question. Is there any plan whatsoever about when or how to reverse these “emergency” measures too numerous to count, from the Fed and Treasury and globally. I’ve scanned reports and seen zero mention about ever unwinding them later.

    The “emergency” temporary QE from eleven years ago is still happening, in fact more than ever.

    Nothing as permanent as an emergency, temporary gov’t program.

    • Adam Says:

      Do they not have sunset clauses in them? I know that was some of the concerns I was hearing about what they were/are trying to pass is that they are trying to make some things permanent as opposed to just temporary. Such as forcing small business owners to provide paid sick leave which will ultimately put them out of business in the long run.

    • yraharris Says:

      Dave–just for the record you know the US still stockpiles helium and wool for dirrigibles and wool army uniforms so the answer becomes open to discussion–

      • David Richards Says:

        Krazy-funny if that’s the military still stockpiling. But Hollywood has a need for such stuff with which to create their magic, or maybe not anymore given their CGI computer-generated imagery.

      • Chicken Says:

        You might say there’s a cryogenic vacuum lurking in the helium market.

  15. kevinwaspi Says:

    No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we’ll ever see on this earth!

    Ronald Reagan

  16. kevinwaspi Says:

    Ben Hunt’s recent “Do the right thing” missive hits the nail on the head, and follows the direction of Walter Bagehot. If these emergency programs to public companies do not also include upside potential such as warrants, then society is screwed. In his Lombard Street, Bagehot said, “Very large loans at very high rates are the best remedy for the worst malady of the money market when a foreign drain is added to a domestic drain.” His main points can be summarized by his famous rule: lend “it most freely… to merchants, to minor bankers, to ‘this and that man’, whenever the security is good”.
    Good for him, good for me.

  17. Rohr (Alan Rohrbach) (@MacroMeister) Says:

    Thanks for another great set of observations Yra.

    Yet what astounds me is the US government (in this case the Democrats) lack of institutional memory over as little as 11.5 years. Aren’t the people running the federal government SUPPOSED to be SMARTER than that?!

    The Dems resistance to TARP in late-September 2008 led directly to the US equities early October crash (even if the bear trend had been in place for a year.) Many of their current members (especially Congressional leaders) were there back then, or surely studied the tragic impact of that legislative stall. And you are exactly right in your praise for Madame Lagarde, and her pointed comment on the need for timely fiscal action.

    So it’s ‘Shades of 2008!’ https://bit.ly/3dlreMl As my note articulates, this is not a partisan comment, as I have recently been hyper-critical of Trump’s fiddling while the US goes through a COVID-19 burn. But when Mitch McConnell (of all people) regarding some normally unacceptable aspects of the original House rescue bill has the cajones to tell his folks, “Gag and vote for it anyway” to get it passed timely, why are the Dems handing the GOP an election talking point they could have easily avoided?

    Hey Nancy & Chuck… heads up!! If airlines, automobile companies and myriad smaller employers start laying everyone off and go BK, nobody is going to care you were ‘defending the little guy’ (who is now on the breadline) against a corporate bailout.

    Shades of 2008! indeed. As Bob Dylan plaintively noted in ‘…Memphis Blues Again’ (1966), “An’ here I sit so patiently, Waiting to find out what price, You have to pay to get out of, Going through all these things twice.” …but Yra, for you and me it’s way more than ‘twice’ (1987 and 2000 before 2008-2009.) I guess all we can do is grin and be thankful we acquired the perspective to understand it.

    Thanks again & best regards-
    Rohr

  18. Chicken Says:

    Socializing losses is complex work, never underestimate the difficulty.

    • TraderB Says:

      I think right now, in this exact moment, never has their been a better time in history to be LONG GOLD.

  19. yraharris Says:

    Bigman—I am thinking XI read this piece last night though he hardly needs my help.Now we are waiting for Vladimir to get busy with some disruptive act

  20. dsiderijr Says:

    what will it take for FDXM (dax futures) to get back to a normal spread in the morning Euro session =\

    • David Richards Says:

      Expand the ECM balance sheet by some huge amount and buy heaps of european ETFs/stawks. Then expand more and buy securities in other countries. Central bank wars is a natural step from currency wars.

  21. Financial Repression Authority Says:

    […] LINK HERE to the Article […]

  22. frank Says:

    TraderB Says:
    March 23, 2020 at 8:44 pm
    My dealer for physical gold is completely out. Who do you guys use?

    Trader B: you might check out Hard Assets Alliance. They are a vaulting service and will ship a purchase to the buyer also. Good ( relatively speaking 🙂 ) prices. Currently for a bag of junk silver APMEX is $17274 and HHA is $15240. I’ve used them in the past and bought another bag a couple of days ago which is scheduled for delivery on the first.

  23. yraharris Says:

    Make sure it is assayed and carries a quality stamp—there is a lot of forgery going on

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